Frankly, I've never cared much for this sort of thing. Pick up your sox; take precautions on dates; it doesn't hurt you to be nice; if you be nice to people, they'll be nice to you. Proverbs. Petty, moralistic, often trite, though sometimes true.

Old people like me love to dispense proverbial wisdom to young people. It makes us feel needed. It gives the impression that the accumulation of years actually teaches us something. I’ve noted that most of youth endure our proverbs good naturedly, thinking to themselves, as they stare at us at fifty, "Oh, so this is how you got to look like you!"

Lately, proverbial wisdom has been enjoying phenomenal growth. Look at the bestseller section of your local bookstore and you'll see titles like, Chicken Soup for the Soul, The Book of Virtues, Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. And what are these but proverbs for modern people who are too busy to think about anything in great depth.

It makes you wonder. Why proverbs now? Historically, proverbs sprout precisely during those times when culture is in chaos, when things come unglued and the old verities are questioned, when people begin to wander and don't know which way to turn. Proverbs are the product of a society which loves its young enough to show them the way, to point to the path, to tell them what we have learned. Proverbs are an affirmation that life has some answers, that you don't have to reinvent the wheel, morally speaking, in each generation. Proverbs point the way.

Sit down, listen to me, kid, and I'll tell you what works in life. That's Proverbs.

Already, I wonder if you're dis-eased by this. You've seen the way the world works. You've noted the gap between the way we preachers say the world ought to work and the way it really works and you become skeptical, cynical about the value of proverbial advice.

Can you really believe that, "All I ever really needed to know I learned in Kindergarten," or, "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise?" Maybe, Ben Franklin. Maybe not. The poor work longer hours than the rich. What is their gain from their toil? Health, wealth, and wisdom? Or broken health, grinding poverty, and dismay? Proverbs render a predictable, dependable, if-you-do-this-you-always-get-that kind of world. But is that the world?

Try today's proverb on for size: "A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, a favorable reputation is better than silver or gold."

Will you buy that? It sounds like something which ought to be said in church. If you are young, you are starting out your life, and you are making your choices, trying to decide which path to take and which to avoid. Choose a good name rather than a good bank account. It's better to have a good reputation than to have much riches. Is that the wisdom of this world?

I know someone who, upon graduation, decided to give himself to the task of teaching in an inner-city school. "I've wasted two years in that school," he said. "Now, I've got to face facts, get real, move on. I've lost some of my idealism, my early naiveté. I'm going to apply to law school."

Yes, face facts. Get into step with the way the world works. And the way the world works is, "Choose power, riches, things, and if there is any free time left over when you get home from the office, work on your reputation."

This summer I saw a biography of Donald Trump. Don has not chosen the path toward a good name and he's famous. They don't write biographies of people who spend their lives teaching high school chemistry. A few weeks ago, Newsweek devoted an entire issue to America's new rich, the new billionaires among us. I don't recollect a really good name among them. Here were mostly people who are known, not for a good name, but rather for helping themselves to the goodies.

So when today's proverb is "Choose a good name rather than great riches," I ask you, is this the wisdom of the world, or is it an assault on the wisdom of the world? Is this proverb a member of the establishment? Or is it subversive of the establishment? Must I revise my low opinion of proverbs? There are proverbs which simply assert, restate, what everyone already believes, conventional wisdom put pithily like, "A woman's place is in the home." There are also proverbs that subvert, deconstruct, assault what everyone already believes like, "A woman's place is in the house, and the senate."

When I stand in the pulpit at a great university chapel, a place of power, prestige, and pomp, and I tell young people that a good name is better than all that, I see poor, drab, sensible-shoes-and a-purse proverbial wisdom don combat fatigues, with a grenade in her hand. And I say to her, "Go ahead, pull the pin."

Curiously, such subversive wisdom, wisdom which dislodges, which invites rebellion, appears—from what I note—most often on young people’s T-shirts. In my classes at Duke University I've seen students use their bodies as a billboard to parody. "Everyone needs to believe in something and I believe I'll have another beer." Or, "Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted." Or, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig." Or, "The only difference between this place and the Titanic is that they had a band." Not to mention the score of T-shirts saying bad things about our rival schools.

I see these subversive parable T-shirts as their youthful attempt to thumb their nose at those who inhabit the university administration. And it's harmless, because such proverbs cost them nothing. But what if they tried putting on their chests these words: "A good name is a better choice than great riches," and then let me know how they make out. Competing with this biblical wisdom are the parables of our day like: "Buy a lot of Pepsi, get a lot of stuff." "The one who has the most toys when he dies wins."

Did not Jesus tell us the proverb that it is possible for someone to gain the whole world and still lose his soul?

Proverbs. They frame life as a choice. A choice is being made here. It is saying that not all paths taken in life are equal. A good name is better than riches, power, and all the world has to offer.

In the past couple of weeks, I've taken note when people have proven the truth of this proverb by saying things like, "She can be counted on, through thick and thin," or "He is a kind and generous person," or "She manages to do much good for others without telling anyone about it." These are everyday affirmations of something called character, of a good name.

I enjoy my work as a university chaplain. The way I figure it, of the four or five most important choices one makes in life, most of them will be made between eighteen and twenty-three. What will you ask of life? Who would you like to look like when you are sixty-five? What will people who know you be able to say about you?

Some years ago, I was campaigning for someone to be elected to congress. The way I saw it, this man was not only successful, but he also had the right kind of politics—progressive, enlightened—politics like mine. As I approached people, asking them to support this man for congress, I was surprised when a man told me, "I would never vote for him. Fact is, I'd campaign against him. I was in college with him and know him for who he really is."

I was surprised. I knew that this man had some domestic problems, but I believed the old liberal political proverb: Who cares what he does in the bedroom as long as he votes right on the floor of the Senate?"

I took up the critic's challenge and I spoke with some of the candidate's college acquaintances and it was true. Even though it had been years since he had been with them in college, they all detested him, remembering some of his tactics with women, remembering his underhanded, grasping ways.

One of his fellow alumni said to me, "I don't care how much money he's made, how many businesses he's begun, and how big a house he's now living in, the man is a scoundrel through-and-through. If he can't be fair to his own family, how in the world will he treat the voters?"

That was the end of my efforts in his behalf. He was elected, without my help, and later went on to prison in an FBI sting operation against unscrupulous congressmen.

Sometimes proverbial wisdom is not only trite, mundane, and commonplace, sometimes it's true. A good name really is to be chosen rather than great riches.

Floyd Brown: I enjoyed that. The book of Proverbs is one of the best reading books of the Bible. It’s one of those that you can read in short spurts and lay it down and pick it up any time that you want to and truly enjoy it. I want a response from a person who is as knowledgeable as you are. You have written dozens of books, you’re a minister, you read the Bible. If you were asked to give a verse from the book of Proverbs to a specific person, I want you to tell me how you would answer. If I came to you as a young college student and said, "Dr. Willimon, from the book of Proverbs, what should I read?"

William Willimon: A proverb for you?

Brown: Yes, a proverb for me.

Willimon: Proverbs has a lot of advice from older people to a younger person. When you read Proverbs, it’s pretty obvious that it’s a sage trying to give advice to a young person. Everything from, "Be careful of a loose woman. Her mouth is a large pit," which may not be politically correct these days. Also, "Young man, choose carefully the steps that you take for they are the steps into life or death." Life being portrayed as two different paths. I might give him that proverb.

Brown: I think that those are very good. You mention being politically correct. That takes me to Washington. Say that I’m a congressman, Dr. Willimon. From the book of Proverbs which verse should I take and use as a guide?

Willimon: There are numerous proverbs that maybe you could remember when you are on the floor speaking. Perhaps the proverb which says, "A fool is quick to speak, and slow to listen." You’re probably thinking some of your colleagues need that proverb! As some people point out, there is not much of God in Proverbs. God is rarely mentioned in Proverbs. Most of it is mundane advice for getting along in the world; not large, but small bits of advice. Of course, most of us make our way in the world with a lot of stored up wise advice like Proverbs.

Brown: In your talk today you had a number of proverbs and lines that one should read, but I’d like to stay with this a little bit. There are mothers out there in our audience today. As a mother, what if I came to you and asked, "Is there one particular proverb that I should probably lean on more than others?"

Willimon: I would think for a mother, the one that many people are familiar with: "Train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is older he will not depart from it."—the importance of that. There is that section of Proverbs which speaks about the good woman who is up early in the morning and is making flax and weaving and doing chores. I remember a preacher reading that string of proverbs about all that the good woman does and he said, "These woman tend to die early, too, after they’ve woven their flax and they’ve made cheese and they’ve sewn and they’ve cleaned!" "Train up a child in the way it should go...," comes to mind.

Brown: You have relatively young children and this will be a good one for you. As a father, if you had to choose a verse from Proverbs, and I would ask for it, what would I get?

Willimon: I think of the proverb which says, "The way of wisdom is a narrow way, but a way that leads to life." That is, the path of the wise person is not the path that everybody takes. It’s narrow, not everybody is on that path, but that ultimately, wise thoughts and wise deeds lead to life. I think that is something for a young person to think about.

Brown: It certainly is. As a father, I have been there. I know exactly of what you speak. We are really concerned about young men and their peers and the pressures in front of them.

Willimon: There is the proverb that is quoted to parents which says, "Parents should be loving and not too narrow in their judgments upon their children." Parental love needs to be suitably compassionate toward the weaknesses of children.

Brown: Here is an easy one for you. As a minister, I would come to you and ask, "Pastor, from the book of Proverbs, is there one that I should really pay close attention to?"

Willimon: I remember one that I heard in a sermon. I remember when the preacher read it, people burst our laughing. It does seem sort of funny. He said, "Better a dinner of herbs where love is, than a fatted calf and strife." Meaning that it’s better to eat at a modest table with just some vegetables, healthy food; than it is to eat at the table that is loaded. The minister said that it’s easy to feast every night at a banquet, but you are going to be on the road a lot and on the phone and in the office late. Sometimes it’s better to choose a simpler, more basic life style which requires less effort and sacrifice, but also which has some love with it. I like that.

Brown: I like that, too. Say we have someone out there who is lonely and depressed, who is watching this program at this time. If they were to go to the book of Proverbs, what would you suggest to them?

Willimon: For loneliness, I think of the proverb which says, "The company of good friends enables us to go on,"—the joy which being with others brings. I must say that Proverbs is not always the best place to go when you are feeling defeated because Proverbs sometimes is a little too sure: if you’ll do this, you’ll get that. That doesn’t always work in life.